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Josh: Awesome. Welcome, Tim.

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Tim Haines: Thank you, Josh. [laughter]

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Josh: And how are you?

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Tim Haines: Tired, excited, and ready.

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Josh: Yeah. Have you been to
other tech events in the past?

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Tim Haines: This is my first year going
to anything at Tech Week, which I feel a

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little bit sad about.

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Josh: Oh, yeah. Okay. Because I think
you've been in the tech space for a while.

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I know you know Chris on my team
and a couple other team members.

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So you've been around.

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Tim Haines: I like to think so.

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Josh: So what have you been up to?
What have you been working on these days?

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Tim Haines: I have been working in
two lanes, building at Unicorn Flames.

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One has been recruiting and
headhunting for marketers.

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And then the second has been doing
custom training and also rollouts for

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AI deployments for SMBs, small enterprise.

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Both of those combined, the idea is
to multiply the team, or the impact

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that the existing team has.

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Josh: Sure. So, Unicorn Flames,
you're helping find marketers, right?

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So, tell me more about that. How did that
get started, and where are you currently

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at today?

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Tim Haines: I once had a marketing agency,
and my favorite part of that was hiring

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people, much to the chagrin sometimes of
my leadership team, who was tasked with

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worrying about financials. Ideally,
I would have hired someone every 30 days.

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So, this is just kind of
a continuation of that.

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And the space is just so wild right now.

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It really is difficult to work within.

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Marketers and communicators and creatives
alike, they're all very deeply impacted,

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of course, for better
and for worse, by AI.

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Josh: Yep. So what's your
differentiator with Unicorn Flames?

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How do you find those people,
especially in this AI-driven world?

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Tim Haines: Existing network, existing
test projects, people that I'm either

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actively working with or that I've
worked with in the past, and/or

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matchmaking. Because I think one of
the most exciting things about the

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current market is a business
can really have their unicorn.

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Josh: Sure. What are the big
challenges with that, trying to find...

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Tim Haines: Vetting talent, and figuring
out what talent is actually needed, is

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much more challenging than finding talent.

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Most of the organizations that I talk
to or work with, you know, they'll post

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something on LinkedIn and
they'll have 300 applications.

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Josh: Yeah, that's a lot.

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Tim Haines: And AI is
a part of that, right?

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Because in the same way that employers are
leveraging AI, talent is also farming some

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of their work out to AI. I experimented
with this myself about two years ago.

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I used one of these, you know, AI
application processes, and I applied for

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250 jobs in a month, and got
a few interviews off of it.

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But that was at the beginning. Now the
space is saturated with AI applications.

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It's just kind of a chaotic
mess for both sides.

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Josh: Yeah, that's what
I was going to say.

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I look on social media and there's so
many people that are frustrated on the job

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seeker side, right? Because they're
submitting, and they're qualified, and

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they're up against all these people that
are just inundating these companies'

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inboxes. [clears throat] How
do they rise above the noise?

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Because there's a lot of
frustration, it seems like.

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Tim Haines: Absolutely. I think we have,
as humans, exceeded our capacity for

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change. And as a former marketer,
I operate from the belief that the nervous

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system is the thing that we should be most
cognizant of in all of our efforts these

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days. People are just overwhelmed, and
rightfully or incorrectly, a lot of that

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energy and frustration goes towards
technology itself, which is certainly

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valid. However, we can't stop what's
happening, you know, so I'm trying to

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focus on the pieces that
I can actually impact.

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Josh: Yeah. What are those pieces
that you're looking to impact?

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And how can people on either side embrace
these changes, or figure out how to live

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in this world that's AI everything,
right, especially in the hiring process?

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Tim Haines: I believe that relationships
are more valuable than they've ever been

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before, right? So where there's AI slop,
and where I can automate this or that,

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none of that replaces relationships.

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And if anything, I think it makes them
even more useful, more valuable, more

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meaningful, right? Like,
we're all tired of talking to AI.

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We're all getting kind of tired,
I think, of talking about AI.

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And human connection is still
quite magical when it happens.

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So although it's certainly always easy for
the person who's in the recruiting role to

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tell others, you know, do A, do B, do C,
and I think a lot of that advice is

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oversimplified at best, I do think there's
an underlying truth, which is: go have

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coffee with people.

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Josh: Yeah. In real life.

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Tim Haines: Look them in the eye. Maybe
even, like, shift your fist towards their

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fist and make a human connection.

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Josh: Yes. Yeah, it's surprising
how many people don't do that,

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right?

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Tim Haines: 100%. And it's surprising,
but also understandable, right?

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Like, COVID, AI,
people need naps right now.

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And not everybody has the social energy to
go make friends, which then becomes kind

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of its own conundrum. If you're looking
for work, and you're trying to pay your

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bills, and you're tired, now you're
being asked to go be an extrovert.

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But maybe you're actually a creative,
and you're actually very introvert wired.

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So, it kind of becomes, I think, a loop.

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The shift to a fractional and freelance
market has made it very challenging, too.

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I like working with entrepreneurs,
and I think some of the most overlooked

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entrepreneurs are the freelancers and the
solo entrepreneurs that might not even

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identify with the word entrepreneur.

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But if you're billing as a 1099 on a
fractional team, you are an entrepreneur.

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Josh: Yeah, it's very
true. It's very true.

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Where do you see the future? Like, if you
fast forward 5 to 10 years, the hiring

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from a marketing and a creative
standpoint, what does that look like, in

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your opinion?

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Tim Haines: I think that the culture shift
that has to happen is that freelancers,

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part-time marketers, what have you,
they have to be treated as an

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invaluable part of the team. And so
the organizations that are going to,

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in my opinion, win, the shift they're
making is a cultural one, right?

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Just because Lisa works 15 hours a
week instead of 40, she's still doing

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design work. And maybe that team
actually is really benefiting from the

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fact that she only wants
15 hours a week, right?

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That could be really good for
their setup, their financials, etc.

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But if they're treating her
transactionally, she's not going to stay.

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So to me, that's kind
of the exciting part.

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I think it has the potential to create
equity if it's treated the correct

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way.

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Josh: Yeah. So, a lot of people
think of this dystopian future when

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you start going down the road of AI.

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So, where does that fit into
the equation, in your opinion?

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Tim Haines: Yeah, it's hard to
know how to cut through the noise.

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I like to have a glass of wine and doom
scroll through Reddit as much as anybody

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else. And, you know, some of these recent
posts from Anthropic employees that are

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leaving, and so forth. It's hard
really to know what to think of it.

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The one I come back to over and over again
is, I've been working with AI for two and

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a half years, and can it do
wildly impressive things at times?

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Absolutely. Do I think that it has the
capacity and capability to take over the

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world and create a Terminator event?

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I'm skeptical. I'm skeptical. Yes, it's
wild, the intelligence in moments, and the

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Hugging Face hacks and some of these
other things are deeply concerning.

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But I don't think it's always as
smart as we want to believe it is.

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I spend most of my time just writing
in all caps, you know: No, Claude.

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No.

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Josh: So, you're going to be the first
one they knock on the door of, when it...

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Tim Haines: I am. I am 100% convinced I
will be disposed of immediately once it...

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Josh: You didn't say thank you.

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Tim Haines: No. Well,
I try to alternate, you know.

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I go both to thank you and all
caps, depending on the moment.

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Josh: So, what about
thank you in all caps?

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Tim Haines: Oh, yes. Absolutely. And also,
like, a please remember me when the time

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comes, you know. Of course it doesn't,
because the context window resets,

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which is the whole... it's like,
oh yeah, what were you...

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Josh: Yeah, 100%. So, what
events are you going to do?

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Do you have an event at this Tech Week?

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Is that right? I thought
I saw you on the schedule.

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Tim Haines: Do I have
an event? I'm not sure.

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I don't remember. [laughter] No.

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The events that I'm most excited
about right now, there are two.

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There's an open coworking session
happening every other Wednesday, starting

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next Wednesday, at Bamboo in Grand Rapids.

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Free, even if you're not a member.

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Pretty big deal. Free coffee made by
me, and maybe the espresso machine.

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And then for marketers, I also do an
ongoing event called the Midwest Marketing

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Meetup. More importantly, they're
opportunities for people to actually look

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at each other and talk.

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Josh: Yeah. Make real human connection.

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Well, that's good. You're
practicing what you preach.

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Tim Haines: As much as I am able.

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Josh: Yeah. What about this week? Are
there any tech events that you're excited

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about, besides this podcast? I mean,
this is probably the most exciting thing.

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Tim Haines: Yeah, I would have to say
this podcast is the one I am most excited

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about. [laughter]

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Josh: There you go.

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Tim Haines: I'm excited about the
conversations happening around AI.

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I'm looking forward to hearing the
different perspectives and the different

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takes on those. I'm also really hoping
that the hallway is where the best stuff

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continues to happen, you know,
in between one event and the other.

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Again, that human connection.

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Josh: Yeah. Nice. So, the thing that's
fascinating you most and captivating your

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attention is AI, from what I'm hearing.

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Tim Haines: I would frame it slightly
differently, although that's very valid.

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I would say the thing that's most
captivating me is the change, and how to

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meet people in a safe
space where they're at.

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Because innovation does have a cost,
and as someone who loves the startup space

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and has spent most of my life in it,
I think it's easy for us all to forget

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that, right? It does have a cost.

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And people are already tired. So, how
are we going to meet them where they're

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at? Change is what interests me the most.

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Latent potential specifically, you know,
that marketer or that creative on your

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team that just needs a two-hour coaching
session and permission to tell you that

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you're wrong, and all of a sudden
your whole trajectory might shift.

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Josh: Yeah. And that's the other
thing that you're working on, right?

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You mentioned you've got Unicorn Flames,
and you have consulting, right?

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Tell me about that.

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Tim Haines: Yeah. The consulting is still
under Unicorn Flames, but it's really just

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a chance to work with any organization
that has more custom needs.

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I've been working in tech for so long that
I'm really good at those conversations

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that start with, let's do this, and then
they actually end up at, but why are we

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doing this? And I think, bias of self
aside, those are the more interesting

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consulting conversations
to have right now, right?

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Like, if you're bringing someone in and
they're just agreeing with you: Yeah,

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you're right, we should roll out Claude
for the whole organization immediately.

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And yeah, you're right, we should redo our
website with A, B, C and D immediately.

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I mean, that can be fun. But I'm much more
intrigued by the underlying question of

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why. Just because I can
doesn't mean that I should.

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Josh: Yeah. Tell me about that. Not
specific organizations, but what have you

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seen within organizations, where people
are adopting things but they're not asking

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that why question?

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Tim Haines: Well, you've got CEOs who are
being told by their CEO friends that AI is

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critical. And in many ways,
it kind of reminds me of SEO, right?

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10 years ago, when I had an agency, with
SEO the trend was, hey, we need the SEO.

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Redo A, B, C, D, E, F and G,
because we need the SEO.

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And yeah, sure, SEO is and was and will
continue to be a valuable part of any

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marketing strategy. However, sometimes the
question that really needed to be asked

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was, but why? Right? Like, you need
more organic traffic, but you have three

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salespeople. Why are
they not closing deals?

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It's probably not because
they're bad salespeople, right?

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They're probably quite talented.

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Maybe there's a process problem
or a positioning problem.

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I think AI is a great thing for us to
all attach all of our anger, frustration,

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hopes and dreams to,
right? It's like a magnet.

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But more often than not, it doesn't
actually have anything to do with what's

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happening.

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Josh: Right. There's core
issues that AI can't solve.

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Tim Haines: Correct. Correct. Correct.

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Josh: Interesting. Well, what do you hope
to get out of this week, as you enter into

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Tech Week? Are there things where you'd
like to find connections and help people?

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Are there things that
people can help you with?

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What does that look like?

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Tim Haines: I'm looking to get one
conversation with an organization that I

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believe in that is trying to multiply
their team, whether that's through AI or

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whether that's through
headhunting a new marketer.

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And more likely than not, they may not
know the answer to that yet, which I think

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is where the fun part is for me.

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Josh: Yeah, that leads to
an interesting question.

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So if people are looking to engage Unicorn
Flames, what is the trigger point where

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they're like, you know, I have this
problem, I should call Unicorn Flames?

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Tim Haines: Fun question. I believe the
trigger point is really: hey, we don't

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know how to navigate what we feel
like this change requires of us.

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And maybe we think that means
we need to hire someone.

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Maybe we think we need to train someone.

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Maybe we think we need to deploy,
you know, Claude for organizations, and go

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spend a bunch of money on that.

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Ideally it's before that decision is made,
because I really do have a general lack of

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bias. I'm not really that worried about
how you get to where you're going.

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I'm worried about helping you
get to where you're going.

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Josh: Last question here, a fun one,
as we close out this past year, 2026.

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What has been a fun technology, or a
technology you use often, that you're

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like, this is amazing? But you
can't say Claude or ChatGPT.

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So, I'll give you an example.
The last person I talked to said the

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Chick-fil-A app. So it could be anything.

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Another way to look at it: if you
went to your phone, what are the most

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used apps besides those?

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Tim Haines: Hmm. I think that my
most used app is the scan PDF app.

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I think it's called Swift Scan.

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It OCRs things.

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Josh: That's sweet. Okay,
good one. I like it.

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Tim Haines: Well, thanks for having
us. It's really been a fun time to

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talk.

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Josh: That was a great
Tech Week conversation.

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Thank you for being part of it.

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We'll need to start taking the headsets
off, kissing the mic goodbye, and exiting

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stage left. The next
podcast is about to start.